Invincible Monk worth it? - Guild Wars Forums

Drake1132 · Oct 04, 2007, 11:17 PM // 23:17

OK, so I've tried out a lot of different character builds over my two accounts and different chapters of the game, but one thing that always intrigued me a little bit was the so-called Invincible Monk build, a.k.a. 55HP Monk. And one of the reasons that the idea intrigues me is that I have taken a level 11 Mo/Wa out with a full party of henchmen and successfully fought from Camp Rankor through Snake Dance and Grenth's Footprint to the Deldrimor War Camp without dying even once, and this wasn't even a low HP build (in fact I don't think I even learned Protective Bond or Protective Spirit, but I definitely didn't use it), so I think the 55HP Monk has some reasonable potential. So I looked recently at some build designs that are supposed to work for it, and also at the skills and spells involved with a mind to create my own design and possibly start a character on it. As I was doing my research I found myself wondering about a few specific potential problems that I'd like to ask about here...

1. Does Protective Spirit and/or Protective Bond work against Degen spells and Conditions such as Poisoned, Bleeding, Conjure Phantasm, etc.? If it does not, then a 55HP Monk build seems like it would be HIGHLY vulnerable to such attacks, which are not all that uncommon, because of the extremely low HP. If you get hit with Bleeding for -4 arrows of health (? I think that's it), that's 8 points of damage per second and you won't last more than 7 seconds if you can't counteract it. If they are vulnerable to such attacks, do you simply avoid any and all monsters that use them, or at least groups that might stack multiple degen effects (such as groups with both necros and mesmers, or groups with rangers that use Apply Poison or worse, incendiary arrows which has the potential to set you on fire for multiple shots for up to 9 seconds for -7 arrows from the condition for that full 9 second duration... 4 un-countered seconds would kill you)?

2. Considering the fact that such builds ALWAYS use at least one Enchantment spell, and that other classes, particularly Necromancers, get skills which take advantage of your enchantments and can even cause you some fairly substantial damage for each enchantment you have active (most notably, the Necro spell "Defile Enchantments"), it seems to me that such attacks would always be a MAJOR threat to such a build. Even if those spells only cause 5 damage per shot, they still remove your protective enchantments, leaving you vulnerable to other attacks and forcing you to recast them whether you're ready to or not. Do you simply avoid any and all monsters that use such attacks?

3. Considering the problems of Energy management for these builds, particularly if using Protective Bond rather than Protective Spirit (I think Protective Spirit is the usual recommendation), it seems to me that the 55HP Monk is simply trading the necessity of healing Health for the necessity of healing Energy. Is this really worth it? I've seen builds that have an easier time of Energy management than others, but it is still always going to be a concern... if you have no energy, your Protective Bond or Protective Spirit all of a sudden isn't available to you anymore and you're shafted.

So what I'm looking for here is the voice of experience... Anyone who has played a 55HP Monk for more than a few hours, please post a response which discusses the above concerns, including what you personally found to be problematic or difficult, what you found to be no concern at all, how you personally deal with such challenges, and in particular, to what extent did you need to watch your Energy pool with your build (and if your energy pool was not a concern, what build did you use to make it so?).

Thanks,
Drake

Antheus · Oct 04, 2007, 11:58 PM // 23:58

1. Degen kills 55
2. Enchant removal kills 55.
3. Energy problems kill 55.

Also: life stealing kills 55 (some skills in one hit). If you lose enchants, you're goner. Mobs not attacking you will leave you out of energy. When playing solo, damage you deal will likely be very poor.

Quote:

Anyone who has played a 55HP Monk for more than a few hours,

That would be a large portion of GW playerbase.

55 is an extremely fragile build, that can be used in a few very limited places. It works in a few others, but there's no reason to use it there.

Unlike 2 years ago, there's now so many different farming builds, that 55 is more a memory of the past, than de-facto farming build.

For UW, most classes these days can solo easily, doing it with 55 is a chore, and is only practical in duo teams.

Quote:

Protective Bond

Protective bond was nerfed about 1 month after the game launched, and hasn't been used anywhere.

Simple truth is, 55 is part of history, and there's nothing left to discover or adapt. Look into farming forum to see what's used instead.

Drake1132 · Oct 05, 2007, 12:54 AM // 00:54

Thanks very much for the info

HawkofStorms · Oct 05, 2007, 01:21 AM // 01:21

The point of farming builds isn't to beat everything in the game. A 55ers couldn't beat all the game missions for example. All of them have weaknesses, usaully enchantment removal since most farm builds use enchantments in some way shape or form.

Its not meant to be a team build used all the time. Its meant to make money in very specific areas, usually against all warrior enemies. Note that mending and healing breeze can counter some degen (3-5 degen won't kill you in short bursts, 8-10 will). Play accprdingly.

wetsparks · Oct 05, 2007, 04:36 AM // 04:36

Quote:

so I think the 55HP Monk has some reasonable potential.

That is such a great line right there. But 55 builds are built to farm a specific area that has no enchantment removal and very very very little degen. Energy they usually get from enemies hitting them and an enchantment giving them +1 energy for it. But other than that, you can adapt the 55 build to lots of places and is fairly easy to learn, most of the time it is just let the enemies kill themselves on soj, ss, or sv.

Coloneh · Oct 05, 2007, 05:47 AM // 05:47

http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Guide:Invinci-Monk_Guide

ignore the part about 600/sb monks. they are inferior apart from 600/smite farming

holababe · Oct 05, 2007, 05:57 AM // 05:57

They work fine for any area without enchantment removal. Degen can be countered as can energy problems by taking the right skillset.

Enchant Removal is the only thing lethal to a 55 monk

strcpy · Oct 05, 2007, 06:12 AM // 06:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by wetsparks

But 55 builds are built to farm a specific area that has no enchantment removal and very very very little degen.

Mo/D 55 builds can counter a HUGE amount of degen. Four enchants at a minimum with 3 pip's per is 12 pips of health regen. That leaves a lot of room for other skills.

Then we have 55 monk builds using Shield of Absorption and Shielding Hands, they can handle an absolutely huge amount of enemies. Add in the above mentioned Mystic Regeneration and healing from Divine Favor and you can counter A LOT of degen - the main problem is that you will only have one damage causing skill (Shield of Justice). With SoJ up you have 8 enchants giving you a whopping *24* pips of health regen that has to be counteracted before you actually start loosing health (while you are capped at 10 pips of actual regeneration, points above that cap are still taken into account when calculating how much regeneration you have) - I call that handling it pretty well

A 55hp monk is still the most versatile farmer in the game, there are a handful of places that other professions can do that they can not and there are a handful of places where they are not the fastest. If you are only going to have one then that is the way to go, though if you are wanting to farm quite a number of places to alleviate boredom then you will really need to kit out more than one profession (A VwK Warrior goes well with the 55 monk, since it doesn't depend on enchants there are some neat farming runs they can do).

A 55 monk is not my favorite farmer, but that is because I don't really enjoy playing one. However, it is the most versatile.

[edit]this is why you see so many Mo/D in many heavily farmed areas - you never worry about degen again.

wetsparks · Oct 05, 2007, 06:28 AM // 06:28

My bad, I don't use Mo/D, just Mo/N and Mo/Me when I 55. I keep thinking about buying the dervish skills but the loot scaling nerf, nerfed my...desire...to farm.

manitoba1073 · Oct 05, 2007, 06:58 AM // 06:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

Mo/D 55 builds can counter a HUGE amount of degen. Four enchants at a minimum with 3 pip's per is 12 pips of health regen. That leaves a lot of room for other skills.

Then we have 55 monk builds using Shield of Absorption and Shielding Hands, they can handle an absolutely huge amount of enemies. Add in the above mentioned Mystic Regeneration and healing from Divine Favor and you can counter A LOT of degen - the main problem is that you will only have one damage causing skill (Shield of Justice). With SoJ up you have 8 enchants giving you a whopping *24* pips of health regen that has to be counteracted before you actually start loosing health (while you are capped at 10 pips of actual regeneration, points above that cap are still taken into account when calculating how much regeneration you have) - I call that handling it pretty well

A 55hp monk is still the most versatile farmer in the game, there are a handful of places that other professions can do that they can not and there are a handful of places where they are not the fastest. If you are only going to have one then that is the way to go, though if you are wanting to farm quite a number of places to alleviate boredom then you will really need to kit out more than one profession (A VwK Warrior goes well with the 55 monk, since it doesn't depend on enchants there are some neat farming runs they can do).

A 55 monk is my favorite farmer, but that is because I don't really enjoy playing one. However, it is the most versatile.

[edit]this is why you see so many Mo/D in many heavily farmed areas - you never worry about degen again.

Yeap some people dont understand how versitile a 55 can be.

Friday · Oct 05, 2007, 08:32 AM // 08:32

As mentioned a 55 is purely for solo farming certain areas and not designed to beat the normal game. So you would find an area that you your 55 can handle in good time and with reasonable returns. My 55 only goes out to one or two places that I know well and farms a few hours when I need the plat for skills etc. The golds go strait to my char working on the title then to the merch minus any worthwhile upgrades, everything else goes to the merch. And thats the point - all drops are yours so every little crappy white and gp is yours and even the crappy whites are btw 50-100 gp when ID'd.

To your points:
1. Prot spirit is the damage reducer and mainstay of staying alive. Prot bond is of no use at all. Degen can be countered to almost purely annoyance factor with mending, healing breeze, Mystic Regen etc.

2. Enchant removal will have you dead faster than you can blink - so no, a 55 can't go where there is enchant removal.

3. Energy. Two of your enchants will be returning energy when you are hit, and Blessed Signet returns energy for enchants you are maintaining, so no, energy should not be a problem if you pace your skills properly.

On damage dealing, a 55 monk using SoJ kills undead with ease even the casters - so stick to the undead areas with SoJ. In other areas SS works a dream as I have found that SV only works well when I am on a duo run with a SS sidekick to mop up.

I hope this helps with some of your questions - a 55monk can be fun to play, and interesting to work out the process of staying alive. Have fun with it - or it's just not worth the effort.

Fight well
Friday

SotiCoto · Oct 05, 2007, 08:46 AM // 08:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drake1132

So what I'm looking for here is the voice of experience... Anyone who has played a 55HP Monk for more than a few hours, please post a response which discusses the above concerns, including what you personally found to be problematic or difficult, what you found to be no concern at all, how you personally deal with such challenges, and in particular, to what extent did you need to watch your Energy pool with your build (and if your energy pool was not a concern, what build did you use to make it so?).

Thanks,
Drake

#1. Degeneration.
[skill]Mystic Regeneration[/skill] fixes this problem admirably if you're Mo/D. There have been stages where due to the number of Enchants I had up, I was toting up to 21 health regen... which means that 11 degen can be countered without a scratch.
[skill]Blood Renewal[/skill] and [skill]Life Siphon[/skill] can also counter MINOR degen for Mo/N Spoil Victor builds if used carefully.
[skill]Insidious Parasite[/skill] is the best hope for Mo/N Spiteful Spirit builds, though as it is health-steal relying on the enemy attacking rather than health regen, it can be a bit iffy.

#2. Enchant Removal.
Don't. Just don't. If the enemies have enchant removal, you do not try to farm them... Simple as that. While occasionally certain monk builds with Spell Breaker can dual-farm them.... it is generally ill-advised.

#3. Energy Management.
[skill]Balthazar's Spirit[/skill][skill]Essence Bond[/skill][skill]Blessed Signet[/skill]
There is no justifying going out without at least one of those, and I usually bring all three. Used properly, you will NOT run out of energy.

OTHER things to watch out for:
Interrupts.
Knockdowns.
Health-Steal.
Traps.
Enemies that heal faster than you can damage them.

Oct 04, 2007, 11:17 PM // 23:17	#1
Drake1132 Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Nov 2005 Guild: Gissu Usumgal Profession: R/N	Invincible Monk worth it? OK, so I've tried out a lot of different character builds over my two accounts and different chapters of the game, but one thing that always intrigued me a little bit was the so-called Invincible Monk build, a.k.a. 55HP Monk. And one of the reasons that the idea intrigues me is that I have taken a level 11 Mo/Wa out with a full party of henchmen and successfully fought from Camp Rankor through Snake Dance and Grenth's Footprint to the Deldrimor War Camp without dying even once, and this wasn't even a low HP build (in fact I don't think I even learned Protective Bond or Protective Spirit, but I definitely didn't use it), so I think the 55HP Monk has some reasonable potential. So I looked recently at some build designs that are supposed to work for it, and also at the skills and spells involved with a mind to create my own design and possibly start a character on it. As I was doing my research I found myself wondering about a few specific potential problems that I'd like to ask about here... 1. Does Protective Spirit and/or Protective Bond work against Degen spells and Conditions such as Poisoned, Bleeding, Conjure Phantasm, etc.? If it does not, then a 55HP Monk build seems like it would be HIGHLY vulnerable to such attacks, which are not all that uncommon, because of the extremely low HP. If you get hit with Bleeding for -4 arrows of health (? I think that's it), that's 8 points of damage per second and you won't last more than 7 seconds if you can't counteract it. If they are vulnerable to such attacks, do you simply avoid any and all monsters that use them, or at least groups that might stack multiple degen effects (such as groups with both necros and mesmers, or groups with rangers that use Apply Poison or worse, incendiary arrows which has the potential to set you on fire for multiple shots for up to 9 seconds for -7 arrows from the condition for that full 9 second duration... 4 un-countered seconds would kill you)? 2. Considering the fact that such builds ALWAYS use at least one Enchantment spell, and that other classes, particularly Necromancers, get skills which take advantage of your enchantments and can even cause you some fairly substantial damage for each enchantment you have active (most notably, the Necro spell "Defile Enchantments"), it seems to me that such attacks would always be a MAJOR threat to such a build. Even if those spells only cause 5 damage per shot, they still remove your protective enchantments, leaving you vulnerable to other attacks and forcing you to recast them whether you're ready to or not. Do you simply avoid any and all monsters that use such attacks? 3. Considering the problems of Energy management for these builds, particularly if using Protective Bond rather than Protective Spirit (I think Protective Spirit is the usual recommendation), it seems to me that the 55HP Monk is simply trading the necessity of healing Health for the necessity of healing Energy. Is this really worth it? I've seen builds that have an easier time of Energy management than others, but it is still always going to be a concern... if you have no energy, your Protective Bond or Protective Spirit all of a sudden isn't available to you anymore and you're shafted. So what I'm looking for here is the voice of experience... Anyone who has played a 55HP Monk for more than a few hours, please post a response which discusses the above concerns, including what you personally found to be problematic or difficult, what you found to be no concern at all, how you personally deal with such challenges, and in particular, to what extent did you need to watch your Energy pool with your build (and if your energy pool was not a concern, what build did you use to make it so?). Thanks, Drake

Oct 05, 2007, 12:54 AM // 00:54	#3
Drake1132 Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Nov 2005 Guild: Gissu Usumgal Profession: R/N	Thanks very much for the info

Oct 05, 2007, 01:21 AM // 01:21	#4
HawkofStorms Hall Hero Join Date: Aug 2005 Profession: E/	The point of farming builds isn't to beat everything in the game. A 55ers couldn't beat all the game missions for example. All of them have weaknesses, usaully enchantment removal since most farm builds use enchantments in some way shape or form. Its not meant to be a team build used all the time. Its meant to make money in very specific areas, usually against all warrior enemies. Note that mending and healing breeze can counter some degen (3-5 degen won't kill you in short bursts, 8-10 will). Play accprdingly.

Oct 05, 2007, 05:47 AM // 05:47	#6
Coloneh Furnace Stoker Join Date: Nov 2006 Profession: D/W	http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Guide:Invinci-Monk_Guide ignore the part about 600/sb monks. they are inferior apart from 600/smite farming

Oct 05, 2007, 05:57 AM // 05:57	#7
holababe Jungle Guide Join Date: Dec 2006 Guild: Goon Squad [LLJK] Profession: Mo/	They work fine for any area without enchantment removal. Degen can be countered as can energy problems by taking the right skillset. Enchant Removal is the only thing lethal to a 55 monk

Oct 05, 2007, 06:28 AM // 06:28	#9
wetsparks Desert Nomad Join Date: Nov 2006	My bad, I don't use Mo/D, just Mo/N and Mo/Me when I 55. I keep thinking about buying the dervish skills but the loot scaling nerf, nerfed my...desire...to farm.

Oct 05, 2007, 08:32 AM // 08:32	#11
Friday Krytan Explorer Join Date: Oct 2006 Guild: [DVDF]	As mentioned a 55 is purely for solo farming certain areas and not designed to beat the normal game. So you would find an area that you your 55 can handle in good time and with reasonable returns. My 55 only goes out to one or two places that I know well and farms a few hours when I need the plat for skills etc. The golds go strait to my char working on the title then to the merch minus any worthwhile upgrades, everything else goes to the merch. And thats the point - all drops are yours so every little crappy white and gp is yours and even the crappy whites are btw 50-100 gp when ID'd. To your points: 1. Prot spirit is the damage reducer and mainstay of staying alive. Prot bond is of no use at all. Degen can be countered to almost purely annoyance factor with mending, healing breeze, Mystic Regen etc. 2. Enchant removal will have you dead faster than you can blink - so no, a 55 can't go where there is enchant removal. 3. Energy. Two of your enchants will be returning energy when you are hit, and Blessed Signet returns energy for enchants you are maintaining, so no, energy should not be a problem if you pace your skills properly. On damage dealing, a 55 monk using SoJ kills undead with ease even the casters - so stick to the undead areas with SoJ. In other areas SS works a dream as I have found that SV only works well when I am on a duo run with a SS sidekick to mop up. I hope this helps with some of your questions - a 55monk can be fun to play, and interesting to work out the process of staying alive. Have fun with it - or it's just not worth the effort. Fight well Friday